RHOSLC- Bat Mitzvahs & Body Counts

We Wine Whenever (00:00.79)
Hi, welcome to We Wine Whenever, I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:03.449)
I'm Kelly.

We Wine Whenever (00:04.426)
And I'm Lauren.

We Wine Whenever (00:06.358)
We are talking about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, season five, episode number 12. This one is called Mazel Meredith. And we start out with her barn mitzvah. She's getting ready. It was nice that she had her whole family there. Her oldest son, Reed, who we've never seen before.

Kelli (00:25.955)
was just gonna say, I don't even know if I knew she had another son.

We Wine Whenever (00:29.55)
He's very private, he lives in New York, he's 26 years old.

Kelli (00:33.485)
So he just wants nothing to do with the show.

We Wine Whenever (00:35.917)
Well, listen, I don't blame him. Brooks, his son. Yeah. So Brooks is 24 and Chloe is 22. So she had her kids all two years apart.

Kelli (00:37.708)
I'll be neither.

We Wine Whenever (00:37.74)
Yeah, who would?

Kelli (00:40.877)
Me neither.

We Wine Whenever (00:41.388)
He's fine though.

Kelli (00:44.291)
He is. He's very handsome.

We Wine Whenever (00:44.514)
He's fine, he's fine. Yeah, very handsome.

We Wine Whenever (00:56.269)
We see Heather shows up with her daughter, Georgia, who's 18.

Kelli (01:03.597)
Listen, I know I shouldn't say it. I shouldn't say it. But does Heather have a stylist? Because what was she wearing? It was like a, looked like something Mrs. Roper would wear. I just feel like, right? Like a glitzy Mrs. Roper, Mumu. And I just feel like she's obviously put a lot of work into herself, Heather. She looks fantastic. Why are you wearing something like that?

We Wine Whenever (01:12.63)
Yeah, I thought the same thing.

Yeah, very much Mrs. Roper, Very much Mrs. Yes. Yeah, Kaftan.

Kelli (01:32.567)
Not that you have to dress like Angie with your tits out, but I'm just saying it's maybe something a little bit more, even a belt to cinch that up.

We Wine Whenever (01:36.032)
Right. Yeah, he could have a little something going on.

Yeah, something.

We Wine Whenever (01:44.226)
I don't, I do think it's very interesting that, you know, in Salt Lake City, you know, they're outside for a part of it, right? They're all standing outside and you could obviously see there's snow there. Some people have fur coats on and others are wearing a strapless dress with no jacket. Like how, how are they, how are they not freezing?

Kelli (02:00.345)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (02:02.114)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (02:05.624)
I think that it's because, yeah, it's because of the, there's a certain time of year there when there is still snow on the ground, but it can be like, you know, 50, 60 with snow on the ground. And I think all, most of the...

Kelli (02:06.027)
You know, I don't know if it's the-

Kelli (02:19.671)
Yeah. Is it similar weather to Colorado?

We Wine Whenever (02:25.91)
I think so. And I think a lot of those places have like their outside spaces are highly heated so that you can kind of have, but it's just weird. It's just weird seeing someone, yes, weird to look at, seeing someone in something that's not a winter outfit with snow and someone's coming on a sleigh. It's just hot.

Kelli (02:34.094)
Bye.

Kelli (02:37.57)
It's just weird to look at.

Kelli (02:47.479)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (02:51.009)
Yes, and half the people are wearing fur coats. I mean, if they were all dressed that way, you'd be like, OK, this makes sense. It must be warm enough. But half of them are dressed in fur coats, and the other are not. It just doesn't make sense to me.

We Wine Whenever (02:54.018)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (02:54.125)
bright and the

We Wine Whenever (03:05.676)
Yeah, it's very odd.

We Wine Whenever (03:07.628)
Yeah, yeah, you're right. So Heather goes on to tell her daughter, because there's an open bar that she hasn't been to about Mitzvah since she was 13. And that was the first time she had alcohol because there was an open bar there too. And she had a fuzzy navel. And when she said that, was like, I used to have a fuzzy navel too. I remember that drink. And I don't think she said it right. She said it was

Kelli (03:08.289)
One of those things, unless we go there, we're really not gonna know.

We Wine Whenever (03:30.904)
was good.

We Wine Whenever (03:33.409)
She said it was peach schnapps, orange juice and Sprite. I think it was, there had to be vodka in that. I think there was vodka.

Kelli (03:38.839)
I thought there was vodka in a fuzzy navel. But you know what, who knows, maybe out there, like maybe it's different, you know.

We Wine Whenever (03:41.206)
Maybe.

We Wine Whenever (03:41.408)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (03:46.124)
Yeah, make it different.

We Wine Whenever (03:46.572)
I'm Mormon, Fuzzy Nabel.

Kelli (03:48.023)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (03:51.597)
I also thought it was interesting that she was ordering the espresso martini and it was the first time since the trip that she had ordered one. by this point, yes, this is, and she was already on her second one at this point and Meredith hadn't even arrived yet. Meredith hadn't even arrived yet. She was already on her second espresso martini.

We Wine Whenever (04:02.645)
and she got so sick.

Kelli (04:02.652)
yeah.

Kelli (04:13.313)
Yeah, mean pace yourself Heather. Pace yourself.

We Wine Whenever (04:16.764)
Yeah. Yeah. And then Brittany gets there and she's talking to Whitney and they're talking about their nails. Bronwyn like looks over her shoulder and says, to Lisa, do you put like glitter and gems on your nails? And Lisa says, I don't do that. That's a little bridge and tunnel. And then they put on the screen, bridge and tunnel means unsophisticated. Come on, that was not necessary though. Like did Bronwyn really have to do that?

We Wine Whenever (04:17.11)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (04:36.952)
Yeah

Kelli (04:40.611)
Yeah, that was funny.

We Wine Whenever (04:41.108)
huh.

We Wine Whenever (04:45.974)
Well, did Lisa really have to do it?

Kelli (04:46.775)
I think Bronwyn did a lot this episode. Yeah, exactly. I think that was more on Lisa than Bronwyn.

We Wine Whenever (04:50.252)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (04:52.052)
It was on both of them. I mean, Bronwyn was setting her up for that.

Kelli (04:55.417)
Brahman was just like, do you do that? Do you put those on? I mean, I don't think she had a tone to her when she said it, but Lisa had a tone when she said it's a little bit. I've never heard that saying before.

We Wine Whenever (05:09.067)
I have not either.

We Wine Whenever (05:10.284)
Well, listen, this is the thing. Lisa grew up being a bridge and tunnel girl because she's not from New York City. She grew up in like far out Long Island. So she used to bridge and tunnel it. So I don't know what she's talking about. Cause it's when you have to go, you have to take like the far end of it. She grew up in New York. Yeah. So she did not grow up in the city.

Kelli (05:10.541)
Yeah.

Kelli (05:31.2)
Lisa grew up on Long Island?

We Wine Whenever (05:38.613)
So you have to take the Bridger Tunnel to get into the city.

We Wine Whenever (05:40.298)
Yes! Yes. So, well, I don't know where she's going with that, because guess what, girlfriend?

Kelli (05:43.302)
got it, got it, got got got got it. Yeah, right.

We Wine Whenever (05:49.346)
But that's typical, to me that's typical Lisa though.

We Wine Whenever (05:49.717)
Right.

Kelli (05:51.565)
But Lisa strikes me as the type that perhaps has forgotten where she's come from. Is that the understatement of the episode? I think it is. Yeah, exactly.

We Wine Whenever (05:55.253)
absolutely.

We Wine Whenever (05:56.159)
You think? I think so. And then we see Melee and her husband Ty is there. Another guest appearance by Melee. Angie and Sean are there.

We Wine Whenever (05:59.646)
the end of the year.

We Wine Whenever (06:16.433)
And Bronwyn's confessional, she's saying that she's not in a good place with Whitney or Angie, which we know. mean, Bronwyn's not in a good place with either of them. Yeah. Yeah. Then we see Brittany, Mealy, and Bronwyn are all talking and they ask that if anyone, if they've talked to anyone since the camp out and Brittany says she hasn't seen Mary or, you know, they ask if Mary's coming tonight. And then you see Angie like over her shoulder, like

Kelli (06:25.506)
or Heather.

We Wine Whenever (06:44.619)
listening to them and it flashes back to a week earlier when Angie went over to Mary's house. And I really thought that that was a, you know, she was sitting in her kitchen and, you know, Angie asked Mary, how are things with you and Meredith and Mary, you know, replies, no comment. And she's like, well, where does that leave you with the Bon Mitzvah? She's like, well, I, you know, I don't even know if I'm going to go. I have too much going on in my life right now. And she, you know, she starts crying and you could see that.

Angie was very empathetic towards her because Angie started crying too. And Angie asks, you know, Mary is everything okay? I don't want to pry. But when you're ready to talk, you know, I'll be here to listen, which is really, think all that Mary needed at that point. And I do, I do believe that Mary is close with Angie. think that whatever happened this year that got them together, I think it's genuine.

Kelli (07:29.175)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (07:39.735)
I, it seems genuine.

We Wine Whenever (07:39.84)
Yeah, it does seem to.

We Wine Whenever (07:42.654)
Because even when she was on Watch What Happens Live after the show, her and and still are not good. Yeah, Mary and Meredith still are not good.

Kelli (07:49.848)
Mary?

Kelli (07:53.565)
because it seemed in this episode that they patched things up.

We Wine Whenever (07:57.202)
Yeah, but it was kind of superficial. It was kind of superficial. I don't know if you saw it. Andy asked if anyone had reached out to her from her cast. And she said everyone, everyone reached out to her except for, was it Brittany? I think it was, Lisa. you're right. It was Lisa.

We Wine Whenever (08:07.702)
Yes, I saw that.

We Wine Whenever (08:13.238)
Lisa. Lisa. Lisa.

Kelli (08:15.896)
I thought it was lea-

I thought it was Lisa, which I was surprised.

We Wine Whenever (08:21.255)
Yeah, you're right, it was Lisa.

We Wine Whenever (08:22.754)
But there was something that went on that was not on camera and I really didn't get a chance to really look at it. Something about, Mary said something about Lisa's son that they're not talking about, but.

Kelli (08:39.865)
she called him the R word. Something did happen. We're not gonna see it. Yes, Mary called Lisa's son the R word.

We Wine Whenever (08:43.584)
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. Well, maybe that's why.

We Wine Whenever (08:54.557)
wonder when that was.

Kelli (08:55.959)
I don't know. thought it seemed like it was this season, right?

We Wine Whenever (09:01.346)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (09:01.39)
no, it definitely was this season. It probably, it probably was when everyone was yelling either at Mary's house or at the camp out maybe because that's when everyone was just yelling at everybody and both of those, you know.

Kelli (09:14.741)
it was probably at the campout because Mary and Lisa were going at each other. It was probably then. Cause I don't think they were really going at each other at Mary's lunch, but definitely at the campout.

We Wine Whenever (09:18.558)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (09:19.318)
Yeah, maybe.

We Wine Whenever (09:25.606)
at the camp and that was the last that was the last thing

Kelli (09:28.845)
Yeah. yeah. No, then.

We Wine Whenever (09:29.261)
Yeah. But you know what? Well, things aside, it really doesn't matter. I don't find any excuse for not reaching out. I don't really care what, just could have called them whatever name she wanted to. To me, that shouldn't even matter. But we're talking about Lisa Varlo, so no surprise.

Kelli (09:50.797)
I don't know, man, if somebody called my kid that, I think I'd be pissed. I do think I would still, if I were the one who, I would still reach out if I knew somebody's, yeah, kid was struggling with substance abuse.

We Wine Whenever (09:55.595)
Yeah, but it

We Wine Whenever (10:02.808)
That's what I'm saying.

We Wine Whenever (10:06.796)
That's what I'm saying.

We Wine Whenever (10:09.161)
Well, and especially if it's, that's when it happened. That's the day that Mary got hit with all that from Robert Jr. And she does talk about that too. Like she never expected, she never expected that. She just really was blindsided by it. So of course she's going to say things that are, know, hurt people, hurt people. How many times have we said that? Right. you know, and she, she,

Kelli (10:22.681)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (10:30.956)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Kelli (10:31.49)
Yep. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (10:35.877)
while she's talking about it in her confessional, she says she asked God to help her and lead her and guide her on what she should do. And I believe that she does do that. And like I said, when he told her, I believe that that was because of all her prayers, because that's what she's been doing. She knew something was up, but she just didn't know what until he was just finally honest with her.

Kelli (10:44.877)
sure.

Kelli (10:57.003)
Right. How about her lurking around that building though, as Meredith was up there reading the Torah. my gosh. She was literally lurking right behind her in the window.

We Wine Whenever (11:00.39)
my gosh.

It was hysterical.

We Wine Whenever (11:03.842)
So, in regards to that...

We Wine Whenever (11:10.513)
I know.

We Wine Whenever (11:10.614)
Yeah. In regards to that, I really kind of blame that on production. mean, didn't they do that whole thing where they like iced her out from trips and stuff? So there was a whole thing with Mary in production already. Do you remember that? There was something where they were icing her out from trips and she wasn't invited. There was like some kind of thing with Mary in production previously that I was like,

Kelli (11:17.945)
For sure!

Kelli (11:28.44)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (11:40.042)
How you do the girl dirty like that? Like, that's just not right. I just feel like somebody could have said, this is where the entrance is.

Kelli (11:44.909)
Yeah, I agree. mean, because it was a religious celebration, like, don't make a mockery of it by having her like behind her, knocking, looking in and... Listen, we could go on and on how production sucks. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (11:50.664)
Yeah!

Bye!

We Wine Whenever (11:58.52)
Yeah, I just think on and on and on. Yeah. And yeah, mean, some of the girls have, it's even like, loved how I thought Angie looked beautiful, but I didn't think that was appropriate for a religious ceremony. It wasn't. It wasn't like.

Kelli (12:13.973)
I totally agree with you. think, listen, you're going out to dinner with your husband or you're going out to the club with the girls. Okay. That is not an appropriate outfit for religious celebration. And you go on and on about how you are religious, how you are Greek Orthodox.

We Wine Whenever (12:22.366)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (12:32.236)
Right.

Yeah, was not digging some of the people's outfits that they wore to a religious event like that. I just don't think it was cool. Like, where are you going?

Kelli (12:36.343)
Why would you wear that?

We Wine Whenever (12:47.057)
I agree, I agree with you guys. Then we see, Bronwyn says to me, Elaine Brittany, what's funny for me is that I've been on the outs with everybody, so everybody talks shit about everybody to me, and I'm the oracle now.

Kelli (12:59.331)
Who said that Brahmin?

We Wine Whenever (13:00.54)
Bronwyn and then Brittany says I'm still upset with Angie for calling me a slut. She said you're sleeping with three guys. You're sleeping with 10 guys. I really think that if she's accusing me of that, it's probably because that's what she's really doing with Sean. Now that's going to come back up again. Thanks to Bronwyn. Like Bronwyn just stirring that pot. Bronwyn says, we'll see who the target is tonight. And then Meredith shows up in her horse drawn sleigh with her husband and her children.

We Wine Whenever (13:14.552)
Just don't-

Kelli (13:20.483)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (13:28.919)
Then Rabbi Ruth starts off the ceremony. Then she explains about the part about being able to wear a prayer shawl. And she calls Meredith's mother up to put it on Meredith. And we find out that it was the one that Seth used when he made his bar mitzvah many years ago. And he wanted her to wear that. And she was very happy to wear that. And she was touched that he wanted to, you know, pass that on to her.

Then she's reading and singing the Torah. I guess you're supposed to sing it. Okay, in Hebrew. She said she's honored to have the opportunity to read from the Torah. I wonder is that the I've never been to a bar mitzvah or bot mitzvah. Is that the whole thing? Was it really that short or no? It's long. It's long. It's a lot longer.

Kelli (14:18.455)
No, it's longer. Yeah, it's longer. Yeah, there's much more to it. And that's what you do. You go in for the prayer part first, and then there's a beautiful party celebration afterwards. I've gone to like three, I think. And yeah, and actually when I was in middle school, my best friend at the time, Meeter Badmitsven, I actually got up to light a candle with her. It's a beautiful ceremony. I was actually thinking while I was watching this,

We Wine Whenever (14:19.188)
No, I believe it's in the car.

We Wine Whenever (14:33.935)
you have.

We Wine Whenever (14:44.545)
I'm sure.

Kelli (14:47.285)
I don't care if Meredith is using this as a storyline or not. It's a beautiful ceremony. I'm glad we got to say it. I'm sorry it got ruined because these women can't control themselves, but it really is a beautiful ceremony. There's a lot of beautiful things about the Jewish religion. There really is. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (14:54.544)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (15:02.811)
That's good to know. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (15:05.256)
Absolutely.

We Wine Whenever (15:09.996)
So then what happens? Lisa says, this is what cracks me up about Lisa. Since she's Jewish by heritage now.

Kelli (15:19.649)
Yeah, what? When was Lisa Jewish?

We Wine Whenever (15:22.124)
Well, well, listen, listen, she grew up, she was Jewish when she grew up. Her and her family lived in New York and they were Jewish and Mormons came. Right, right. Mormons came and knocked on the door and her family converted.

We Wine Whenever (15:25.2)
By Heritage.

Kelli (15:34.07)
Long Island, when she was on Long Island.

We Wine Whenever (15:43.156)
Yes.

Kelli (15:46.487)
Alright, I'm happy you told me that because I never knew that.

We Wine Whenever (15:48.812)
Well, there you go. Yep. Yep. I read about that.

We Wine Whenever (15:52.23)
But again, she was bringing it about her because she's Jewish by heritage and now that Meredith made her bat mitzvah, now she feels closer to her. Like what? Even though you are a Mormon 2.0, I mean, she's not even a regular Mormon, she's a Mormon 2.0 and Jewish by heritage.

Kelli (15:56.802)
Well, of course.

Kelli (16:03.001)
even though she's a Mormon.

We Wine Whenever (16:04.137)
yeah.

We Wine Whenever (16:10.658)
No, it's hysterical.

Kelli (16:16.569)
Holy cow. She really did turn that around and made it right about herself. Holy shit. I gotta give it to these people. Some people do it so effortlessly, it's like, it's an art, it's a form of art, really, how they pull that off.

We Wine Whenever (16:16.588)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (16:18.701)
I'm like...

We Wine Whenever (16:21.34)
yeah.

We Wine Whenever (16:30.392)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (16:35.718)
Then what happens that's actually that Mary shows up at that point and she's peeking through the windows then Meredith starts to say a few words About I didn't have my bad myths about growing up and then all of a sudden she's like it didn't bother me and then all of a sudden she's like I need a moment like all of a sudden she was overcome with emotion I Mean, I don't know. Was it is it that emotional? Was it that acting? mean it seemed a bit dramatic to me, but

Kelli (17:03.479)
I think it's very hard to tell with Meredith. It's very hard to gauge with her. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (17:05.58)
with Meredith, yeah, I was just gonna say. Well, you know, it's interesting because during the episode she also said, you know, I'm not so much into the religious aspect of it, but I'm more into the traditions of it. So who knows? Who knows what her gig is?

We Wine Whenever (17:09.176)
Okay.

We Wine Whenever (17:23.032)
Right.

Kelli (17:25.177)
I mean, I don't know. I'm a crier, I'm a sap, and I, we just had the investiture mass yesterday at St. Dominic's, and my kids are long confirmed and dumb at CCD, but I still get choked up when I'm there because these are the kids I'm teaching. some people do, but I don't know if that person is Meredith.

We Wine Whenever (17:48.664)
I wouldn't think, I wouldn't, if you were to ask like who I think that was, yeah, like if since it's Meredith, I would be.

Kelli (17:53.057)
I just don't know.

We Wine Whenever (18:00.101)
Probably not. Probably not, right. But then she goes on to...

We Wine Whenever (18:00.426)
I don't, probably not, probably not. She was just having, giving herself a moment.

Kelli (18:01.131)
Right. Right.

We Wine Whenever (18:08.246)
Yeah, to be right there. Because then she goes on to say, with all the anti-Semitism around the world, this is when she decided to do it and really wanted to show her support. So, you know, then they, maybe, yeah, because of the world, maybe, maybe, I don't know. Then they all say Mazel Tov and it's time to eat.

We Wine Whenever (18:10.37)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (18:17.433)
Right.

Kelli (18:23.747)
So maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe for that.

We Wine Whenever (18:34.691)
So then it's time to eat. And Heather runs up and says hi to this doctor. And then she introduces him to Bronwyn that this is my plastic surgeon. Again, I know I'm like, how random is that? Like, what?

Kelli (18:44.631)
and it's like, we love a plastic surgeon.

We Wine Whenever (18:46.604)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kelli (18:50.957)
He must be married to this plastic surgeon also if he's there. I would imagine.

We Wine Whenever (18:54.948)
Or just her friend, I mean, who knows? Has Meredith had plastic surgery that she's admitted to? I don't know.

Kelli (19:02.169)
I'm sure she hasn't admitted to it, but she most certainly has.

We Wine Whenever (19:03.684)
Mary then goes over to Meredith and says, did amazing and I'm so proud of you. And they have this moment, like you said, Mary says, you know, I know we need to talk. They don't really talk, but she tries to talk. They both really apologize to each other and they kind of, you know, just leave it there. They said that, you know, they're going to learn from this and move forward.

Kelli (19:06.681)
something.

We Wine Whenever (19:29.527)
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in the season. Cause like I said, on watch what happens live, she's, you know, she's not, she's not good with Meredith. Like she is with Angie. Yeah. She also did say that she has a lot going on in her life. And you know, maybe you would think that Meredith would say like, what's going on in your life, you know, but she didn't.

Kelli (19:36.889)
That's interesting.

Kelli (19:52.942)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (19:56.77)
Then Angie goes up to Bronwyn and says, do you have a minute to talk? And no, she says, well, let me start with a compliment. I love your outfit. I love your purse. And then Bronwyn says, is this a two step apology? is the next, is this step two and the next is the apology? And she's like, you want an apology from me? And she's like, yeah, I want an apology from you. And.

Kelli (20:00.931)
This didn't go well.

We Wine Whenever (20:22.761)
And she's like, well, I was thinking the same thing. I want an apology from you. I'm like, God.

Kelli (20:27.789)
Yeah, don't know what Angie wants Brahman to apologize for. Basically, Brahman wants Angie to apologize for telling her to shut the F up 17 times, right? Okay, so now telling somebody to shut the F up over and over and over and over again is a little bit different than just cursing in general.

We Wine Whenever (20:30.73)
it's just too much.

We Wine Whenever (20:39.061)
yes yes

We Wine Whenever (20:49.11)
Right, right, right. No, I agree. mean, that's what, so Bronwyn wanted it because she kept telling her to shut the fuck up. And Angie's like, well, I mean, you curse all the time. Like, you know, what's the big deal? Cursing and telling someone to shut the fuck up, totally different.

Kelli (20:51.863)
I mean, that's my take on it.

Kelli (21:08.44)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (21:10.242)
It's two of the things, yeah.

Kelli (21:13.358)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (21:13.443)
Then Todd walks over and says to Bronwyn, I think it's time to get a drink. And then he says to Angie, would you like a glass of wine? And Bronwyn says, you don't need to get a drink for someone who tells me to shut the fuck up.

Kelli (21:29.155)
So here's what I think. I think Todd was just trying to get Brahman out of that situation because he didn't like the way she looked in that situation. But he really should have just let her handle it because she was handling it. And he might not like the way she looked while doing it, but that's what she has to do on this show.

We Wine Whenever (21:50.413)
Well, I think you're 100 % correct. I mean, he did want to try and get her out of the situation and be gracious about it. But, you know, he, the way he goes about it, because then when she does go over, she says to him, you know, like, why did you say that in front of me? Like, if you wanted to do that, like, don't do this in front of me. And he's like, well, I didn't like, like, if you didn't,

Kelli (21:57.325)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (22:18.623)
like the way she was talking to you, then you should walk away. Like don't let her talk to you that way. And then he winds up, he winds up walking away. Like he leaves mad. You know, she gets her drink and then he goes over to the bar, but I don't think, I mean, we didn't really see him again because then the whole big blowup happened and we never really saw them get back together. Like before everyone started leaving, you know, I don't know. I mean, I, I get it. He doesn't like to see her like that, but I think what he, if he,

comes back next, if they come back next season, maybe he just doesn't go to these events. Maybe he just doesn't witness it because it's, it's not, it's not something that, you know, Lisa's husband wasn't there for whatever reason. So maybe he just doesn't come to these events because this is how they're going to act, you know.

Kelli (22:59.545)
Hmm.

We Wine Whenever (23:07.532)
Well, can see it being a very foreign thing to him. Because really, in real life, who really acts like this? This is not normal behavior. So I'm sure to him, he's like, what the fuck are these people doing? And I saw an interview with her. Yeah, I saw quite a few interviews with her.

We Wine Whenever (23:07.887)
And I get it, you know, I get it.

We Wine Whenever (23:16.266)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Kelli (23:20.307)
yeah, my- would be like, I'm getting the fuck outta here. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (23:25.026)
No.

We Wine Whenever (23:31.112)
Right, right.

Kelli (23:32.397)
Why am I here?

We Wine Whenever (23:37.032)
And she talks about their relationship a lot. And she said, you know, he really is very protective because she said she suffers from a lot of anxiety. She's very highly anxious person and she feels like highly anxious person. She says like, you know, when you see me, my hands are flitting or my hands are messing around my neck. She goes, I'm getting like all charged up. And she said,

Kelli (23:52.697)
Promenace?

Kelli (24:05.837)
Well, no wonder he's trying to get her out of those situations. That explains it all.

We Wine Whenever (24:08.568)
Yeah, and that's why he kind of jumps in and reacts like that. But she said this is something that she wanted to do almost because of her anxiety. And she's really trying to use this whole experience to really, she goes back, she watches, she looks at herself, she's analyzing.

She's thinking, can I do? Like she's really, and I haven't heard this from any other housewife before, but not like I'm some big housewife person, but she's really trying to work through it. Yeah. She's really trying to work through it and grow, which I thought was very impressive.

We Wine Whenever (24:46.305)
She's trying to grow. Yeah.

Kelli (24:52.345)
That makes a lot of sense and explains why he acts the way he acts sometimes.

We Wine Whenever (24:58.344)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it was interesting to learn about her.

We Wine Whenever (25:01.653)
Yeah, I agree.

Kelli (25:04.013)
That is interesting, that's very interesting. Huh.

We Wine Whenever (25:07.778)
So then Whitney goes up to Heather and says, we need to talk about what Braunwyn was saying at the camp day. And Heather's like, I don't think that there's anything to discuss. anything she said, you and I have already discussed. Like you've already, you know, it doesn't matter. We're good. Right.

Kelli (25:20.781)
Yeah, like Whitney, we can go one episode without you having some kind of fucking dramatic experience. Like stop.

We Wine Whenever (25:28.073)
Right. So then Lisa walks over. Yeah. But then Lisa walks over and Whitney is talking and Lisa interrupts her and she said, why don't you fucking let me speak? Now, again, Lisa didn't have to come over. Like she wasn't a part of the conversation.

We Wine Whenever (25:29.346)
Yeah, she shut her down.

Kelli (25:47.075)
I do think that in these situations, producers are pushing them to go over to where the situation is. I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. Because Lisa was probably happy off in the corner having her cocktail.

We Wine Whenever (25:55.815)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (25:55.883)
Well, that's a problem. I mean, that's a problem. That's totally a problem. And then.

We Wine Whenever (26:06.805)
And then once again, Lisa starts calling Whitney a liar. This is all a lie. And I'm just like, my God. Lisa says, do you know how to figure out who's lying? You get both liars in the room together. And I'm like, my God, like what is going on?

We Wine Whenever (26:10.316)
Liar, liar.

We Wine Whenever (26:23.362)
High School.

We Wine Whenever (26:25.49)
It is so high school. It's so high school. And then Bronwyn's over there talking to Brittany and Melee and she's like, who thought we'd be friends? Who thought I'd be friends with YouTube? Like meeting Brittany and Melee. And then Brittany says, well, now that we're newly friends, I want this to last a hot minute. I mean, literally it wasn't even a minute. It was not even a minute until Bronwyn threw her under the bus.

Kelli (26:25.529)
Mm.

We Wine Whenever (26:45.452)
wasn't even a minute.

Kelli (26:47.705)
She's like, really want to see where this friendship goes. It's going in the toilet in about T minus 20 seconds.

We Wine Whenever (26:50.7)
Yeah, nowhere. Nowhere, yeah.

We Wine Whenever (26:50.718)
All right.

We Wine Whenever (26:55.852)
That guy says yes.

We Wine Whenever (26:57.246)
Yeah. So then Heather calls Braun went over and okay, go ahead.

Kelli (26:58.585)
You

We Wine Whenever (27:02.424)
But know, Brian went ahead and goes to hell, we said that she doesn't have any problem being a Massey. So it's almost like she just does what everybody else is doing, but it's more open about it.

Kelli (27:16.131)
That's basically what she's saying, I think. I think that's what Brahman's saying. Like, I'm not doing anything the rest of you aren't doing. I'm just being honest about it. Because that's what she said to her husband. They get mad at me if I'm being honest. They get mad at me if I do this. I totally agree with you. I think that's what's going on.

We Wine Whenever (27:25.223)
she is, she's just being more honest about it.

We Wine Whenever (27:33.336)
I

We Wine Whenever (27:36.51)
Yeah. So then Heather calls Bronwyn over and Whitney asks Angie, like, did I say anything about Heather? And Brittany says, I don't think you say things just to be dramatic. Then Brittany says, you guys called me a slut because then they come over. And again, they just wandered over there. Like they weren't a part of this conversation. And then that's where it blows up. Lisa said, you said I was doing three guys. Brittany said, you said I was effing like 10 guys. Bronwyn

then tells Angie that Brittany earlier said that Angie is a slut. What? Like, really?

We Wine Whenever (28:08.598)
You

Kelli (28:09.837)
She said if she's calling me all these names, maybe it's because that's what she is.

We Wine Whenever (28:13.406)
It's right. Exactly. So then, then Angie starts yelling, I don't look like I have a high body count and I don't dress like I have a high body count and I don't wear my hair like I have a high body count. I was like, Whoa.

Kelli (28:26.051)
Did you see Mary's face when Angie said body count? my God, Mary's face, like her, like, it was so funny.

We Wine Whenever (28:27.81)
That was great. That was great. That was great. Yeah, huge.

So I was wondering if Angie had quite a few cocktails by then, because that was, she was like on a tear, on a tear. Like she was popping off.

We Wine Whenever (28:37.695)
HUUUU

Kelli (28:47.203)
She was poppin' off.

We Wine Whenever (28:48.639)
She definitely was. She definitely was.

Kelli (28:51.865)
And that's what she did. She called her dress, her shoes, her boobs, her hair slutty. And then she goes, I didn't call her a slut. All right, well, you called literally every physical feature that was on her slutty. Like, I think it's just semantics at this point.

We Wine Whenever (28:56.893)
and her hair.

We Wine Whenever (29:00.893)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (29:02.637)
He

We Wine Whenever (29:07.476)
Her.

We Wine Whenever (29:08.596)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (29:11.786)
Yes, most definitely.

We Wine Whenever (29:12.319)
And then Brittany says, think, Brittany says, you think my hair looks cheap? Like after all that she said to her, the only thing she grabbed onto was her hair?

Kelli (29:20.409)
I personally like Britney's hair. That's like my get. I really like it. I like the color. I like the style.

We Wine Whenever (29:21.452)
Yeah, right.

We Wine Whenever (29:24.359)
you

We Wine Whenever (29:25.605)
It's like, it was big 80s hairdo.

Kelli (29:30.245)
Exactly, and I'm here for it, but I saw a close-up on one of the social media posts and you could see her tracks You could totally see her tracks. I don't know who did her hair that day, but it's like you know you got to be careful

We Wine Whenever (29:38.481)
We Wine Whenever (29:39.16)
We Wine Whenever (29:45.016)
How about Lisa telling her, your hair looks pretty, but you do need the treatment. Whatever that treatment was, it's just that you need it. yes, they're going to make a fortune now. I don't know. I don't know.

We Wine Whenever (29:47.102)
Especially since Angie's a hairstylist and owns a salon and so is her husband. I said Angie. Did I say Angie? Yeah.

Kelli (29:50.325)
Exactly. Right.

We Wine Whenever (30:02.238)
hahahahah

Kelli (30:04.141)
That treatment's been all over social media, by the way. I don't know how to pronounce it. Carastase? Carastase or something? It's like K-E-R-A-S-T-A-C-E, something like that. fuck yeah, they better write Lisa a check.

We Wine Whenever (30:07.804)
you

We Wine Whenever (30:13.848)
But they're going to be making a fortune now because.

We Wine Whenever (30:20.31)
Yeah, but that was gold. was Lisa Gold.

We Wine Whenever (30:21.18)
Yeah, that was funny.

Kelli (30:25.273)
you

We Wine Whenever (30:25.861)
So then Brittany says to Angie, screw you, screw you, Angie. And then Angie says, take your bump it and walk away.

Kelli (30:34.029)
And then she says something to Melee about her hair. I thought Melee's hair looked amazing and Tess was actually, and she was like, what's she saying about her hair? Her hair looks good. I loved Melee's hair.

We Wine Whenever (30:41.544)
thought her hair looked good too. I thought her hair looked good.

We Wine Whenever (30:43.64)
She was... Andrew's on a tear, that's why. She was tearing it up.

Kelli (30:49.111)
You're right. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (30:51.206)
And she says, I was never slutty, not even in high school I wasn't slutty. And then Whitney's like...

Kelli (30:57.017)
Come on Angie, we all had a couple of slutty years. Just admit it.

We Wine Whenever (31:00.908)
Come on, yes.

We Wine Whenever (31:01.574)
Then Whitney looks at her and she's like, Angie, that's not nice. And I'm just like, God. So then Brittany goes over and we don't see her, she's off camera, but you hear her talking to Brooks and Chloe and she's like crying to them. And Whitney's like, she's crying. And Angie's like, she's crying. you you hear her saying, they're calling me slutty. And Brooks is like, that's not right. And then he goes over to Meredith and tells Meredith what happened. And as soon as Meredith gets wind of what's going on, it just was like,

Kelli (31:04.764)
Ha

We Wine Whenever (31:24.076)
Gah.

Kelli (31:31.085)
Meredith was waiting for a reason to kick Angie out of that party. By the way, who has security at a Bump It's Fun?

We Wine Whenever (31:33.939)
absolutely. Yeah, come on.

We Wine Whenever (31:35.111)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (31:38.736)
I know.

We Wine Whenever (31:41.536)
So, you know, stuff like that makes me think that that was the whole, that was the whole gist. that was the setup from the very beginning. from the very beginning, the producer said, okay, look now, Meredith, you're to get to throw her out of the party. We'll have some guys there. So it'll look good and blah, blah. Like that's the stuff where you're like, I mean, come on. Nobody has big burly guys with gold chains on.

Kelli (31:42.894)
But...

We Wine Whenever (31:51.229)
you

Kelli (31:57.047)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (32:08.093)
What?

Kelli (32:08.131)
I mean, unless they're in your family.

We Wine Whenever (32:11.773)
Do you remember when they were in Palm Springs and Meredith was trying to call security when Heather was really drunk on the martinis and she kept yelling at the waiter, security, security. Like that's her thing. She's like, security. Right.

We Wine Whenever (32:20.015)
yeah yeah yeah yeah.

God, thank

Kelli (32:26.659)
That's right. And the waiter's like, I just bring water.

We Wine Whenever (32:30.616)
Yeah, I spring water. Like, I don't know what you me to do later.

Kelli (32:32.375)
I can happily get you another drink. cannot escort this woman out of here.

We Wine Whenever (32:36.194)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (32:39.131)
So she winds up leaving herself, Meredith winds up leaving, and Lisa goes after her that time. I was like, what is with her and this security?

Kelli (32:46.423)
And then Angie walks up to Brittany and she goes, I, you know, I love, I love your hair.

We Wine Whenever (32:51.576)
I love to do this.

Kelli (32:53.593)
What? You know what? Now that you said it, Laura, I bet you Angie was lit. She had to be lit.

We Wine Whenever (32:59.924)
It's, he had me. He had, I think so. I was like, well.

We Wine Whenever (32:59.965)
No, she had to be. She definitely had to be lit. I mean, Meredith's exact words were, quite frankly, I'm over Angie's behavior. I'm like, quite frankly, like who says that?

Kelli (33:04.344)
Yeah.

Kelli (33:15.286)
I know.

We Wine Whenever (33:15.286)
Meredith.

We Wine Whenever (33:17.423)
Yeah. And then Angie's like, you don't have to escort me out. I don't even weigh a hundred pounds. my God, that was even funnier. She throws it. That's not my code.

Kelli (33:23.745)
And Sean at that point was just like, whatever. Then they hand her Britney's jacket.

We Wine Whenever (33:27.928)
And she throws it.

We Wine Whenever (33:36.621)
I was just waiting. I was waiting for her to say that code has too high of a body count of some, know, fun.

Kelli (33:36.939)
It really was a good episode.

We Wine Whenever (33:38.909)
It was funny.

We Wine Whenever (33:48.446)
god.

We Wine Whenever (33:48.829)
And then Lisa goes running outside after her and she's like, you know Angie, what's what's going on? Well, first of all, you know what's going on. You saw what was happening and Lisa says I feel bad for Angie, but I don't see how she doesn't see how she has a part in this. Okay, well.

We Wine Whenever (34:04.182)
Mm-hmm. What she say, she said, Angie remembers her reaction, not what she did to provoke the reaction.

We Wine Whenever (34:12.59)
Exactly, exactly. Then why did you run out after her? Right.

Kelli (34:15.066)
But why didn't you put at Angie's face when you were like hugging her saying how much you loved her? Like if you're her friend, tell her that. I think that, I mean, Lisa did kind of bring her back in by Britney though, before Meredith kicked her out, right? Was it Lisa that went out and got her?

We Wine Whenever (34:21.753)
Right, right.

We Wine Whenever (34:33.395)
Mm-hmm. I think so. Yeah, I think so. Who can remember? There's still too much going on.

Kelli (34:37.281)
Yeah, but still. I know it was a good episode though.

We Wine Whenever (34:41.272)
I know. it was, because Lisa says to Angie, don't say anything you're going to regret when she's out there.

Kelli (34:47.446)
Right. Because she was still calling her tacky while she was out there.

We Wine Whenever (34:51.544)
Right, right. then Brittany, this is the best, the next thing that happens. Brittany and Melee say to Bronwyn, let's take a selfie. Bronwyn says, well, I don't have slutty hair, so I'm out of here. I was like, what? Are you kidding?

We Wine Whenever (34:51.586)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (35:02.232)
I like it! I like it though. Yes!

Kelli (35:02.745)
That was little fucked up. That was a little fucked up. And she was serious. Like kind of joking, but she was serious.

We Wine Whenever (35:12.984)
I come on!

We Wine Whenever (35:13.624)
I know what's funny. I don't know what's Mm-hmm.

Kelli (35:15.703)
And again, I thought Melee's hair looked amazing.

We Wine Whenever (35:21.548)
whole thing was too too funny.

We Wine Whenever (35:22.518)
And it was hysterical. It was hysterical. Angie says, I'm done. I'm embarrassed that she invited me here. And then she asked me to leave. Lisa says, I'm sorry and hugs her. Lisa goes back inside and says to Meredith, the level of accusations is unbelievable. then Lisa says, cheers to Porta Viarda. And then she leaves. But then we see her in her confessional and she says, this is so out of hand. Like everyone is in some kind of fight.

Meredith hates Angie, Bronwyn hates Angie, Angie hates Brittany, and I hate Whitney. The thing is, not so long ago, we were all kind of okay, which is why before Angie threw a napkin, before she and Brittany had high body count hair, and before Meredith pulled up on a sleigh, I planned the perfect girls trip. What? Now she gets her own monologue at the end? this is so overproduced, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

Kelli (36:15.566)
Yeah.

Kelli (36:19.403)
It's very overproduced. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (36:22.048)
And you know, find, yeah, I find it interesting because you know, they had that scene last time where they did like the girls, Girl Scout camping thing. But a lot of the stuff that they're doing is almost like campy. Not like camping, but like campy funny, like.

We Wine Whenever (36:22.139)
I mean, that's what it was. She had her own monologue.

We Wine Whenever (36:35.172)
Right.

Kelli (36:39.703)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (36:42.873)
Yeah, no, yeah, it is.

Kelli (36:43.191)
Right. Yep.

We Wine Whenever (36:44.8)
Yeah, it's just a lot of it's campy. But I don't know. I thought it was funny. And I'm not easily amused by Housewife stuff, so.

We Wine Whenever (36:48.025)
It is.

Kelli (36:56.045)
I thought it was a good episode. I liked the spiritual aspect of it with Meredith, with the ceremony. liked the, because to me, this is good drama. Good, you know what I mean?

We Wine Whenever (36:58.092)
Yeah, it's just it was just.

We Wine Whenever (37:13.253)
Yeah, it wasn't the worst episode. mean, there was very funny parts of it. There really was. I mean, the whole... the whole...

Kelli (37:16.747)
Yeah, exactly. And it's nothing too deep or too serious. mean, somebody a slut, like slut shaming somebody is not right. It's really not. But it was kind of like an all in good, I don't want to say all in good fun, but it's nothing too deep. It's nothing too serious. It's not saying somebody cheated on their husband. It's not, you know, talking shit about somebody's kid. Like this is good. This is good drama. Let's keep the drama light.

We Wine Whenever (37:24.783)
now.

We Wine Whenever (37:34.72)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (37:40.886)
Right. Just plain, just plain slack nonsense. Yeah, I might have gotten it.

Kelli (37:46.551)
He got high body count hair. I mean, it's not the worst thing somebody can say about you. It's really not.

We Wine Whenever (37:48.453)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (37:51.16)
No, no, no, no. And you know, she is, she is Greek and they are feisty. It's just how it is. They really are. Yeah. They, I know lots of Greek people and they get, they get riled up. They get riled up. So, so I want to tell you, I listened to a podcast with, Bronwyn, one of the Vilephiles.

Kelli (37:54.925)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (37:58.967)
Whoa, that's an understatement with her.

Kelli (37:59.065)
Yeah, of course!

Yeah, she could start throwing some plates soon.

Kelli (38:11.575)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (38:20.16)
And do you know that she had her daughter and went back to work two days later?

We Wine Whenever (38:20.676)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (38:28.184)
two days in finance. And she said, you know, I couldn't, I had to provide for my daughter and I was in a position where if I would have gone out on any kind of maternity leave, someone would have taken my position. was a very, whatever position she would, she would have taken, and she was like, I couldn't do it.

We Wine Whenever (38:30.18)
Where did she work?

Kelli (38:46.617)
That's right. Somebody would have taken her accounts.

We Wine Whenever (38:49.998)
Wait a second, she was in college. She was in college when she got pregnant.

Kelli (38:53.931)
No, think she got pregnant in college. She had her after she graduated.

We Wine Whenever (38:54.262)
by cheap.

We Wine Whenever (38:59.447)
Yeah, she was.

We Wine Whenever (38:59.835)
I thought she was a sophomore in college. I don't think she graduated.

We Wine Whenever (39:04.65)
I don't think she, no, she did not graduate, but she got a job right away. So she must've gotten the job while she was still pregnant. Yeah, but she said, yeah, two days later, I was like, whoa, boy. And she was saying how, you know,

Kelli (39:04.683)
Maybe she didn't maybe she didn't graduate. Maybe she got a job.

Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (39:15.31)
Well good for her!

We Wine Whenever (39:24.888)
She was kind of taken aback because she knew Lisa in a certain way and kind of thought when she went on the show that Lisa was going to kind of show her the ropes and kind of, but she said, no, was totally, once she got on the show, was a totally different aspect of Lisa. And it was just, she was just totally sink or swim and there was no, no backup whatsoever. So.

thought that was in.

Kelli (39:54.861)
I think there are certain housewives that would have done what Brahman was looking for. Lisa's not the one. Lisa's looking out for number one. Lisa's looking out for Lisa. She's not showing you how to navigate anything. She's gonna look to defend herself at all costs.

We Wine Whenever (40:01.112)
No.

We Wine Whenever (40:11.818)
Yeah. And she said that she actually, yeah, she'd actually put.

We Wine Whenever (40:13.271)
Yes, that's true.

We Wine Whenever (40:21.528)
She had actually had a first class ticket for Heather.

And that's one of the, yeah, she had that, yeah.

We Wine Whenever (40:26.573)
Yeah, she said that. She said that in the episode. Yeah.

Kelli (40:26.702)
Bye.

She said it at Mary's lunch, but I don't understand them. Why didn't you just give that ticket to Lisa?

We Wine Whenever (40:33.688)
Because it was gone.

We Wine Whenever (40:34.701)
Well, would you? She had already when Heather wasn't going.

We Wine Whenever (40:36.69)
But it was gone because yeah, because when, yeah, then she had to give the seat up. Yeah. Yeah. And she said that she did, you know, when Lisa started making the racket about the ticket, she did offer up one of either her or Todd's first-class seats. And I guess they, yeah, that they didn't take it.

Kelli (40:42.297)
so she canceled it when Heather said she wasn't going and then somebody else got it. Got it.

We Wine Whenever (40:59.971)
She did?

We Wine Whenever (41:06.008)
Let's see. She said that, you know, also too, that a lot of her trust issues are coming to the surface, you know, in regards to how it went down when she was pregnant. So she said, you know, I'm having all these internal issues with all these women who don't trust her. So she said that's part of her gig too.

We Wine Whenever (41:41.208)
and Nick Vile had asked her, he said, you know, about the necklace. He goes, you know, was that like a bit of like dick measuring? And Brown was like, of course. I thought that was funny. Remember the necklace that she got? That however million dollar necklace. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kelli (41:56.963)
Yeah.

Kelli (42:00.27)
big flack.

We Wine Whenever (42:00.535)
the four million dollar necklace did she really keep it I mean she really did keep it

We Wine Whenever (42:04.948)
I think she really did keep it. Yeah, I think she did.

We Wine Whenever (42:08.985)
Hmm.

We Wine Whenever (42:11.328)
Yeah, so I don't know. It was just it was just kind of fun to get to know her a little bit more like another, you know, the inside. So I like her. I think she's fun.

We Wine Whenever (42:11.768)
I would not.

Kelli (42:18.006)
Yeah.

Kelli (42:21.857)
like her, I still like her. Yeah. Yeah, she's getting messy and I think she's trying not to, but it's just happening. But it's all right, it's how you handle it afterwards.

We Wine Whenever (42:24.717)
her too. She's very messy. She's very messy.

We Wine Whenever (42:32.694)
Well, I mean, can you imagine having that job? Yeah, but can you imagine having that job, being a new housewife with that group?

Kelli (42:39.609)
No, I would be a total fucking mess if somebody had cameras on me all the time. I would be a mess.

We Wine Whenever (42:42.806)
Yeah,

We Wine Whenever (42:48.141)
Well, we're on episode 10. I hope we get to see a little bit more what's going on with her daughter, because I think she said when she was on Watch What Happens Live earlier in the season that we're going to see how it plays out.

Kelli (42:59.319)
Yeah, yes.

We Wine Whenever (43:01.911)
So we'll have to wait and see what happens with Gwen.

We Wine Whenever (43:02.22)
Yeah, that whole thing's just sad. That's just a sad situation.

We Wine Whenever (43:05.899)
Yeah.

Kelli (43:09.305)
And it unfortunately doesn't sound like the grandparents really learned anything by losing their son. Like as far, I mean as far as wanting a relationship with their granddaughter. It's very sad. It's surprising, shocking, disappointing, sad. It's all those things. Real quick, the other night Wendy and I were talking about Teresa Giudice and Joe Giudice and why they went to jail and it turns out we were both right.

We Wine Whenever (43:14.84)
No, I don't think so.

We Wine Whenever (43:24.6)
it very soon.

We Wine Whenever (43:24.907)
Yeah, it is.

We Wine Whenever (43:28.236)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (43:29.622)
Yeah.

Kelli (43:40.173)
They went to jail. There was 41 counts of fraud, including bank fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, bankruptcy fraud, and tax fraud. So, you know, submitting fraud, the allegations, and they were accused of submitting fraudulent loan applications, which is what you said. And I don't know why I've worked for lawyers my whole life, and I don't know that if you lie about your income on a mortgage, I guess if you get the mortgage and you've lied.

We Wine Whenever (44:05.825)
Well, yeah.

Kelli (44:06.665)
I was thinking like if you put the wrong amount down, they're gonna fact, you know, they're gonna check it and if, you know, they're not gonna give you the loan, but that's not what happened. They got the loan.

We Wine Whenever (44:17.592)
Mmm.

Kelli (44:19.273)
Lying about their employment and salary concealing assets and income from the trustee. That's what I was talking about That's what I thought they really went to jail for hiding their assets from the trustee Cheating the government on taxes testifying falsely under oath in a bankruptcy proceeding. I mean, what are you doing? You're one you're under oath Yeah, so we were both right

We Wine Whenever (44:37.612)
Right.

We Wine Whenever (44:38.232)
That sounds like a shit show. That sounds like a shit show.

Kelli (44:47.531)
I mean, listen, it's water under the bridge. They're both out, thank God. I feel bad that Joe is still deported and not allowed in the country, but I just wanted to clarify that because we like to be, you accurate.

We Wine Whenever (44:47.596)
Well,

We Wine Whenever (45:01.525)
Yes, and we're not perfect. I did listen to Give Them La La today and it was her Monday bonus episode and it was Teresa again. I guess she did it in two episodes. And Teresa was talking about her time on House of Villains. And I started reading an article about that, how people are saying like they see a different Teresa on House of Villains than they did in the most recent.

We Wine Whenever (45:01.826)
Right, No. No, no one's.

Kelli (45:03.552)
No, we are not.

We Wine Whenever (45:30.199)
housewives and she says because she went in there with a different mindset like that's who she really is and She was talking about you know Joe her husband About you know, he never really showed her affection never told her she looked pretty and these are you know true things, know, he didn't we saw that and that Louie does all those things for her and makes her feel good and takes care of her and

Kelli (45:52.023)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (45:59.349)
you know, she really enjoys that kind of relationship. She likes the affection. She likes the attention. And it makes me understand her more. You know, I know that, you know, I still, feel bad for her. I do. The more I hear her talk.

We Wine Whenever (46:13.976)
That's what I was gonna say. And I haven't watched all, I mean, I watched like season one and half of season two of The Original Housewives. And that was always my takeaway from it is that I really, I do feel bad for her. I don't think that she's the brightest bulb. And I don't mean that in a mean way at all. But I just think that she's, I really do feel.

We Wine Whenever (46:18.241)
The more

We Wine Whenever (46:21.983)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (46:27.796)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (46:37.12)
She's not.

We Wine Whenever (46:42.08)
I feel bad for her. I don't think that she's...

I don't think she has the emotional maturity to really handle relationships correctly. And I think that's what happened with Joe and I feel like that's what's happening with this husband now that she's just not... And I feel bad because I feel like from what I've seen, he's a shyster and I would feel badly for her to get like fucked over.

whether she did it to herself or not.

We Wine Whenever (47:18.774)
I agree with you. Right. Right. And that's what's going to happen. I agree with you. And you know, another thing she said, which I've, you know, remember when they were in the vineyard and he was on the phone, Joe, and he said, I got it. You know, he could see you next Tuesday. She talked about that. And when Andy told her about it, she was yelling at him and he never spoke to me that way. He never talked to me that way. She's like, he never used those words. Like, I know how we would fight.

We Wine Whenever (47:32.64)
I saw that, yeah.

Kelli (47:36.473)
Mm-hmm.

We Wine Whenever (47:48.726)
and he never did that. She really thought that they they manipulated it. you know, Lala was like, mean like AI or something? She goes, yeah, he never spoke to me that way. So it was, I do, I do.

Kelli (47:58.819)
Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that Joe Giudice did not talk to her like that? I don't believe that for a second. Nah, you can't play victim this much. No way.

We Wine Whenever (48:04.757)
I No, I believe her. I do.

I mean, he was in a vineyard, he was definitely drunk. I mean, they had been drinking all day. Yeah, I mean, he was definitely drunk. mean...

Kelli (48:15.159)
Yeah, and he drank a lot, Joe Giudice. That was like, yeah. I'm sorry. There's no way. They said it. Dolores has said it. He was terrible to her the way he spoke to her. Dolores has even said it.

We Wine Whenever (48:29.493)
Cheers!

We Wine Whenever (48:35.968)
I could see that I, and like I said, I'm looking at it from the outside, because I only watched a little bit of it. But I could tell right, like I got his number right away. Being from New Jersey, like I got his number right away. He was a typical North Jersey, Italian, short man. It's just classic textbook. And I could see him being very,

Kelli (48:50.041)
Yeah.

Yes.

Kelli (49:03.521)
He was textbook.

We Wine Whenever (49:06.178)
demeaning to her. I could see it. I mean, I never heard him say it, but I could see it.

Kelli (49:09.005)
Yes.

We Wine Whenever (49:09.301)
But let me tell you.

We Wine Whenever (49:13.205)
But this is the thing, she also said she thinks that like everything happens for a reason. Like the reason she went to jail is because she would have never left Joe. She would have never left him. You know, she even when she, when he got out of jail, she even went over to Italy. She was trying, she was going to try and make it work. She would have stayed with him. That's who she is. She is like loyal.

Kelli (49:36.545)
No, she told him when she went to Italy when he got out that she wanted a divorce That's what she went there for Well, that's not that's what's on camera

We Wine Whenever (49:43.604)
No, that's not what she went there for. went there. No, she went there to see how things were with her and to see how it was going, if they could make it work. But at this point, she was so resentful because her mother had passed away. She was in prison and she missed all that time with her mom and she would have not left him. That's what she said. And I believe her. Like, I think that the only reason she finally wound up leaving him and divorcing him

Kelli (50:01.465)
you

We Wine Whenever (50:12.506)
is because she just had had enough. And even if he was calling her names, she said he never said that name. mean, that's, well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think she was going to leave. She wasn't going to leave him. If this didn't happen, she would never left him. And she'd still be with him for her daughters, her daughters. I mean, I, and even she talked about like how she met Jim Leonard.

Kelli (50:20.441)
I don't think she would have left him over that.

Kelli (50:28.537)
Right.

Kelli (50:35.447)
Yeah. Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (50:35.913)
orders.

We Wine Whenever (50:41.15)
She didn't even want to hire Jim Leonard. She met Jim Leonard because they were trying to do, she gave it a number. They were trying to go back after she had already pled guilty and different attorney advised her to plead guilty. They were trying to go back and be re-sentenced and he was the one trying to do that. And it was Melissa and Joe's and Cathy's attorney and she didn't want to use him. She didn't want to meet him because it was her brother's attorney. She wanted nothing to do with him.

He came in, she wanted nothing to do with him. And then all of a sudden she started talking to him and she liked what he had to say. She's like, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. She's like, but, well, he's shyster too is my point. But she doesn't know that. She thinks he's a good friend. She's like, he took me to jail that day. He took me to prison. He came to my house and he picked me. But I'm telling, this is what I'm saying to you. She is delusional. This is what she.

Kelli (51:17.293)
because he doesn't do that type of law.

Exactly.

Kelli (51:28.215)
I don't understand you, I mean how?

Kelli (51:34.521)
She, that, that, that is correct. She is delusional. And I can't feel sorry for somebody who plays victim over and over and over again, especially when you have people telling you and you don't fucking listen.

We Wine Whenever (51:38.778)
saying.

We Wine Whenever (51:48.103)
I don't think she's playing victim. I don't think she's playing victim. think she's living in what happened. I'm just telling you, she's delusional. She doesn't see people for who they are. She still trusts, she still trusts Jim Leonard. She trusts him now to this day. She considers him a good guy. And that is, that is real. This is how she feels. She's not, she's not, she's not playing victim. She's not saying she's a victim.

We Wine Whenever (51:48.376)
Yeah.

We Wine Whenever (51:57.634)
No.

We Wine Whenever (52:06.786)
That's what I'm saying,

Kelli (52:13.166)
Yes, she is.

We Wine Whenever (52:14.067)
No, she's not. She went to jail. What she's saying is she holds her head high because she doesn't see herself as a criminal. She went to jail because of what she did. She's taken accountability. She signed the papers. She didn't realize what she was doing. I believe that 100 % because she is not the brightest bulb. She puts her trust in people like her ex-husband and Jim Leonard and her new husband. She has a very poor judge of character and she...

We Wine Whenever (52:40.76)
That's what I'm saying.

We Wine Whenever (52:42.799)
She doesn't cry victim though. She's not saying poor me, poor me. What she's doing is she's hustling and trying to provide for her children and she's, you know, paying for them to go to college and she's, you know, paying off the debt of her ex-husband who's not in the country. She's not crying victim. She really isn't. I don't think she is.

Kelli (53:01.369)
So she never admits when she's wrong, she blames everybody else for everything that's happened to her.

We Wine Whenever (53:04.312)
But I think this is a thing. I think that is because she doesn't even realize it. Like she's so delusional. Yeah, it's making Kelly crazy. It's making Kelly...

We Wine Whenever (53:07.814)
Ahem.

We Wine Whenever (53:14.32)
Right, I agree.

Kelli (53:18.541)
Let's stop talking about it, seriously. I can't even, I can't believe the two of you are saying this. Somebody who never thinks they do anything wrong and blames everybody else for everything that's happened to them is playing victim. This happened to me because this person did this. This happened to me because this person did this. You're making yourself a victim.

We Wine Whenever (53:21.261)
Yeah

We Wine Whenever (53:45.062)
But are you a victim if you're the one who's fixing the problem?

We Wine Whenever (53:45.964)
Right, in her own mind, but in her own mind, she's not the victim. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, I'm not saying what the reality is. I'm not saying what the reality is. I'm saying what the reality is to herself in her own mind. She just, I don't think that she sees what reality is.

We Wine Whenever (53:53.362)
She doesn't think she's... Right.

We Wine Whenever (54:07.388)
She doesn't, she's delusional. She is, she's delusional. Kelly, thinks, Kelly thinks we're delusional.

We Wine Whenever (54:09.058)
She's delusional. I'm not saying I'm a fan. I'm not saying she's great. I'm just saying.

Kelli (54:14.869)
All right, now listen, anybody can be a fan they wanna be. I think you two are delusional right now, like for real.

We Wine Whenever (54:18.38)
I'm not a fan!

Kelli (54:26.969)
what I'm hearing in these headphones. But that's all right, that's what we do, we agree to disagree. It's totally fine, it's totally fine.

We Wine Whenever (54:33.565)
That's it, that's okay. We can have different opinions on things. Really, it's not that important. I love how you get so passionate about it though, because it's really not that important.

Kelli (54:39.681)
It's really not. I'm going to lay my head down tonight and have a good night's sleep.

We Wine Whenever (54:40.086)
No, it's not at all. Not at all.

Which is

Kelli (54:48.757)
I know, just can't believe anybody defends her, but that's okay. That's okay. I'm sorry, I didn't mean the word, I know what you mean, I know.

We Wine Whenever (54:52.352)
I'm not, no, no, no, no, you're taking it wrong. I am not defending her. Yeah, no, I'm not defending her and I don't think Wendy's defending her. I'm just saying that.

We Wine Whenever (55:02.694)
I'm just saying I see a different side and I have empathy for her. That's just me. That's who I am. I feel bad for her. I do. I do.

We Wine Whenever (55:09.996)
I just think she doesn't even know how fucked up she is. That's what I'm telling you. Doesn't even know.

We Wine Whenever (55:14.866)
True.

Kelli (55:15.011)
So do you think she didn't know when she was setting Melissa up with the whole stripper thing? Did she not know what was going on?

We Wine Whenever (55:23.552)
Well, I know what you're talking about. And I think that she did know. I think she knows.

We Wine Whenever (55:24.46)
No, no, I listen. She let's bring it back to this.

Kelli (55:29.953)
or when Jan and Penny were talking about her cheating on Joe.

We Wine Whenever (55:34.04)
Let's go back to, this is another thing she's taken accountability for. So Lala had asked her about Jackie, like who would be your like dream cast. And she said, Jackie, she's like, you're good with Jackie. She goes, listen, yeah, Jackie and I talked, we're good. She did that to me because I hurt her first. I went after her first. She admitted that she went after her first when she started the rumor about Evan cheating. She said, I went after her first and she came back at me.

We Wine Whenever (55:34.166)
Right, I remember that.

Kelli (55:57.475)
Well, that's the first time she's ever admitted.

We Wine Whenever (56:03.322)
So if you come back at me after I went at you, then that's fine, that's fair game, but don't come at me first.

Kelli (56:10.809)
But she's on camera saying, I don't give a fuck about Jackie. I just want her to take Margaret down. That's what I need her for.

We Wine Whenever (56:17.115)
I know, but that's not what she's saying now.

Kelli (56:19.543)
No, okay.

We Wine Whenever (56:21.528)
Well, don't need to know, we don't need to like her either. We're just giving you our opinion about where we think her head's at. That's all.

We Wine Whenever (56:23.78)
Hehehehehe

Kelli (56:26.022)
and I'm never gonna.

Kelli (56:36.269)
I'm just curious to see how they handle this. But Laura, I said to Wendy, how amazing would it be if Bravo took the real housewives of New Jersey and just got rid of everybody else and just made it about Teresa and her brother and trying to reconcile them. I mean, right? Whether you're a Melissa fan or a Teresa fan, you're gonna watch that show. You're gonna wanna see what happens.

We Wine Whenever (56:47.706)
yeah, I saw it. Yeah, I did your clip today on that. Yeah, that would be very interesting. Yeah, I like it.

We Wine Whenever (56:52.912)
Hahaha!

We Wine Whenever (56:59.32)
yeah. I don't know what Bravo's doing not listening to you, Kel. They should be calling us up. They never listen to you. We got really good shit going on. I don't know what the problem is.

Kelli (57:04.958)
I mean, they never listen to us.

We Wine Whenever (57:05.732)
They never listen to us.

Kelli (57:12.099)
We really do!

We Wine Whenever (57:16.292)
All right, I think this is.

Kelli (57:16.377)
All right. Did I get too heated about the Tari? I'm trying not to get too heated about it.

We Wine Whenever (57:17.026)
Bye.

We Wine Whenever (57:19.704)
It's right. It's so good. Did you take your blood pressure medicine? Okay, good. That's important. Okay. All right. So until next time, can you guys please give us some five star reviews and share our podcast? your friends.

We Wine Whenever (57:21.56)
All right. So good.

Kelli (57:24.149)
I did. I did. And I'm gonna have some chamomile tea next.

We Wine Whenever (57:25.026)
You too, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

There you go. There you go. You can all calm there, girlfriend.

Kelli (57:32.377)
Yeah

Kelli (57:41.793)
and check out our website, wewinewhanever.com. Bye.

We Wine Whenever (57:44.59)
That's it. Bye.

We Wine Whenever (57:45.208)
Bye.